What is a Hate Movement?

<body topmargin=0 leftmargin=0 marginheight=0 marginwidth=0><script type="text/javascript" src="http://hb.lycos.com/hb.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://ratings.lycos.com/ratings/lycosRating.js.php"></script> <script type="text/javascript"><![CDATA[//><!]]></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://scripts.lycos.com/catman/init.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://members.tripod.com/adm/ad/code-start.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://members.tripod.com/adm/ad/code-middle.js"></script> <script type="text/javascript" src="http://members.tripod.com/adm/ad/code-end.js"></script> <noscript> <img src="http://members.tripod.com/adm/img/common/ot_noscript.gif?rand=528706" alt="" width="1" height="1" />  <iframe frameborder="0" marginwidth="0" marginheight="0" scrolling="no" width="728" height="90" src="http://ad.yieldmanager.com/st?ad_type=iframe&ad_size=728x90&section=209094"></iframe>  </noscript> <table cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 border=0 height="100%"><tr> <td valign="top" width=160 BGCOLOR="#FFFBF0" TEXT="#080000" background="067f0f03.jpg"> <div> <A HREF="index.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Sex War"><U><B>Sex War</b></U></A></div> <div>  <A HREF="id5.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Essays"><U><B>Essays</b></U></A></div> <bR> <div> <B>What is a Hate Movement?</b></div> <div> <A HREF="id50.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Just Sex War"><U>Just Sex War</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id129.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Equity feminism a contradiction "><U>Equity feminism - a contradiction </U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id34.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Extremists"><U>Extremists</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id52.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="No Good Feminists?"><U>No Good Feminists?</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id132.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="The average feminist"><U>The average feminist</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id54.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Profeminism"><U>Pro-feminism</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id55.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Jokes"><U>Jokes</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id45.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Magic Y chromosome"><U>Magic Y chromosome</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id48.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="My Definition"><U>My Definition</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id41.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Censorship"><U>Censorship</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id44.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Once Upon A Time..."><U>Once Upon A Time...</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id60.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Lesbian Separatism"><U>Lesbian Separatism</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id62.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="51"><U>51%</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id46.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Humpty Dumpty Feminism"><U>Humpty Dumpty Feminism</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id63.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Child of the Glacier"><U>Child of the Glacier</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id133.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Open Letter to Mens Activists"><U>Open Letter to Men's "Activists"</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id135.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="A Letter to the Mounties"><U>A Letter to the Mounties</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id140.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Having your cake and eat it"><U>Having your cake and eat it</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id141.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Women are children"><U>Women are children</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id143.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="A criticism of iFeminism"><U>A criticism of iFeminism</U></A></div> <div> <A HREF="id147.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Male DV victims"><U>Male DV victims</U></A></div> <bR> </td> <td valign="top" BGCOLOR="#CCCC99" TEXT="#080000" bgproperties="fixed" background="068f0f03.jpg"> <div> <B>What is a Hate Movement?</b></div> <bR> <bR> <div> A logical place to start a discussion about whether feminism is now a hate movement, is with a definition of "hate movement". But before that, it turns out there's even more of a need to say what a hate movement <B>isn't</b>. It <I>isn't</I> simply a bunch of people who hate another group of people. In particular just because you are in a hate movement doesn't mean you consciously hate all members of the targeted group.</div> <bR> <div> In fact IMO the word "hate" in the phrase "hate movement" is misleading. Usually hate means a very personal and emotional antipathy. It's been said that you can't really hate someone unless you've loved them first. But this sort of emotional intensity isn't always present in members of a hate movement. The word "hate" is simply used different when applied to an individual than when applied to a group. Political hate, or hatred for a group might be quite passive. Its hard to be so wound up about people you've never even met. IMO a more accurate word for what's going on would be <B>contempt</b>.</div> <bR> <div> <I>Some definitions on-line</I></div> <div> <A HREF="http://hatewatch.org/faq.html#definition" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://hatewatch.org/faq.html#definition"><U>HateWatch</U></A></div> <div> A hate site is defined as, "<I>an organization or individual that advocates violence against or unreasonable hostility toward those persons or organizations identified by their race, religion, national origin, sexual orientation, gender or disability. Also including organizations or individuals that disseminate historically inaccurate information with regards to these persons or organizations for the purpose of vilification.</I>" </div> <bR> <div> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/onemansmind/" TARGET="_top" TITLE="http://www.geocities.com/onemansmind/"><U>One Man's Mind</U></A></div> <div> "<I>You can promote and struggled for the rights of your race, group or religion to help sustain your way of life and provide a better future. The key is to honor every human beings right to the same thing.    A hate group wants the same thing but they are willing to deny or suppress the rights of others to obtain that goal. This usually comes in the form of deceitful discrediting, vandalism or violence against the target group</I>."</div> <bR> <div> But most sites that talk about hate movements, tend to avoid defining the concept. I think this is dangerous because of how much power there is behind the accusation. The groups routinely counted as hateful are quick to point out the similarities between them and more acceptable groups. They generally take steps to deny the worst aspects of the label placed on them, for example by explicitly condemning violence or law breaking. Its hard to come up with a definition which is neither too broad, nor too narrow.  <A NAME="hate_definition"><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="1x1.gif" HEIGHT="1" ALIGN="bottom" WIDTH="1" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0" ></A>Well here's my attempt. A hate group,</div> <bR> <div> <B><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="Symb075c00b700f0cc000000.gif" HEIGHT="16" WIDTH="24" ALIGN="bottom" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0">Advocates </b><A HREF="id64.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Discrimination set in law"><U><B>lesser rights in law</b></U></A><B> for the target group</b></div> <div> <B><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="Symb075c00b700f0cc000000.gif" HEIGHT="16" WIDTH="24" ALIGN="bottom" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0">Propagates </b><A HREF="id65.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Prejudice against men"><U><B>discrimination</b></U></A><B> against the target group</b></div> <div> <B><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="Symb075c00b700f0cc000000.gif" HEIGHT="16" WIDTH="24" ALIGN="bottom" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0">Teaches that the target group is </b><A HREF="id43.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="The Second Sex"><U><B>inherently inferior</b></U></A><B> and immoral</b></div> <div> <B><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="Symb075c00b700f0cc000000.gif" HEIGHT="16" WIDTH="24" ALIGN="bottom" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0">Teaches that the target group is a </b><A HREF="id66.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Living with the enemy"><U><B>threat</b></U></A></div> <div> <B><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="Symb075c00b700f0cc000000.gif" HEIGHT="16" WIDTH="24" ALIGN="bottom" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0">Uses </b><A HREF="id67.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="The lies of feminism"><U><B>lies</b></U></A><B> including </b><A HREF="id86.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="A mans history of feminism"><U><B>historical revisionism</b></U></A><B> to spread these views</b></div> <div> <B><IMG BORDER="0" SRC="Symb075c00b700f0cc000000.gif" HEIGHT="16" WIDTH="24" ALIGN="bottom" HSPACE="0" VSPACE="0">Tolerates </b><A HREF="id68.htm" TARGET="_top" TITLE="Feminism and violence"><U><B>violence</b></U></A><B> towards the target group</b></div> <bR> <div> Now certainly it is easy to show that feminism does all this to men as a group, but there is another aspect to a <I>movement</I> being hateful, and not just a specific <I>group</I>. These attitudes and actions must be <B>pervasive</b> and generally represent the leaders the organizations and the ordinary members of the movement. At the same time a movement which does advocate this kind of hate is likely to see itself as justified and try to present its ideas in an acceptable way. </div> <bR> <div> I should say that some people add that political hate like this can only be directed towards a birth group, not for example, a political group. I didn't add this because so many people like to try and accuse me and others of "hating feminists". As you can see from the above I do not. For example I do not say feminists or other hate mongers deserve lesser rights, although many feminists do argue for "hate crimes" ironically. At any rate I omitted this part of the definition to avoid a charge that I couldn't take my own criticisms! Its probably wise to include that seventh criterion in a definition of hate to limit frivolous use of the term. Taken individually the criteria might be legitimately used against certain groups at certain times. For example I argue feminists are immoral (although not inferior) which is the 3rd criterion. The point of limiting the definition of political hate to attacking birth groups is that by birth alone no one deserves to be targeted like this.</div> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <bR> <div>     <p align="center"> <A HREF="http://rd1.hitbox.com/rd?acct=WQ5011298NZC45EN0&p=s"> <IMG SRC="http://hg1.hitbox.com/HG?hc=wf153&l=y&hb=WQ5011298NZC45EN0&cd=1&n=Hate Definition" height=62 width=88 ALT="Click Here!" border=0> </A> </p>    </div> <bR> </td> </tr></table></body>